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  #61  
Old 07-17-2009, 02:38 PM
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Default Re: FeLV

Quote:
Originally Posted by June View Post
takde hantar for IFA test.just pakai the kit as u said earlier. but then, itu test pun accurate jugakan??
June, the consequences of both a false positive and a false negative test are potentially severe .... tak simple macam you take a pregnancy test which comes out positive and you go out and buy some baby stuff expecting a baby to come and then discover that the test result (don't they all claim to be almost 10% accurate) was actually a false positive, all you need to do is to throw all the purchased baby stuff into the recycle bin and just lose some money. If the result is correct, you keep all the stuff and baby comes into your life.

I repeat: the consequences of both a false positive and a false negative test are potentially severe ... some people might have put a false positive cat to sleep ... or allowed a false negative infectious cat to roam loose and infect many other cats! So without such confirmation test for your cats you are going to treat them as confirmed positives and proceed to confine all your cats in cages (real positives) for the rest of their lives (and already PP is so stressed that he tore down his whole "house"? )
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Last edited by FurKids; 07-17-2009 at 03:04 PM.
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  #62  
Old 07-17-2009, 02:46 PM
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Default Re: FeLV

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Originally Posted by hatemetoday View Post
JUne..aku tak tau nak kate ape..semua orang dah ckp benda yg aku nak ckp..yg aku pasti..ko ngan aku sama...sama2 rescue stray..ini hari hari ko..esok lusa mana tau hari aku...bak kata doc...mcm mana bersih dan tertib pon kita jaga ..kita tak tau apa yg ada dlm badan dorang....
Kak Hate, ramai orang tak cakap kucing lain tapi selalu cakap pasal strays tetapi sebenarnya bukan strays yg mungkin carry banyak penyakit dalam badan ... kucing petshop dan BYB tak kurang dengan masalah/penyakit terpendam memandangkan environment di mana kucing-kucing di simpan iaitu padat dan kotor. Kalau ikut pemerhatian saya, lebih selamat saya kutip stray tepi jalan daripada beli kucing petshop atau BYB! Lagi banyak penyakit dan lagi serius.
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  #63  
Old 07-17-2009, 03:09 PM
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Default Re: FeLV

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Originally Posted by FurKids View Post
Kak Hate, ramai orang tak cakap kucing lain tapi selalu cakap pasal strays tetapi sebenarnya bukan strays yg mungkin carry banyak penyakit dalam badan ... kucing petshop dan BYB tak kurang dengan masalah/penyakit terpendam memandangkan environment di mana kucing-kucing di simpan iaitu padat dan kotor. Kalau ikut pemerhatian saya, lebih selamat saya kutip stray tepi jalan daripada beli kucing petshop atau BYB! Lagi banyak penyakit dan lagi serius.
iskk..kucing mak seme stray...yg paling tua si futey merah aku - meekee tu jek waris dari spca (ko pon tau kan spca tu mcm2 style and pesen kucing ada)...aku bedoa lah shyguy aku sekor ni tak ada apa2 pembawakan yg serius ...even tho dia penah sekali gak 'tumbang' sbb demam (tahon 2007) ...akak sit ontok2, read and study jek masalah kengkawan skang nih.......mana tau mase ku pulak..at least aku tak panik dan terima kenyataan dgn hati tebuka...
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  #64  
Old 07-17-2009, 03:17 PM
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Default Re: FeLV

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Originally Posted by FurKids View Post
Kak Hate, ramai orang tak cakap kucing lain tapi selalu cakap pasal strays tetapi sebenarnya bukan strays yg mungkin carry banyak penyakit dalam badan ... kucing petshop dan BYB tak kurang dengan masalah/penyakit terpendam memandangkan environment di mana kucing-kucing di simpan iaitu padat dan kotor. Kalau ikut pemerhatian saya, lebih selamat saya kutip stray tepi jalan daripada beli kucing petshop atau BYB! Lagi banyak penyakit dan lagi serius.
As long as they are cats..they are not acceptional... Tak kisahlah mana kucing pun.. This thread is all about consoling June on her misfortunate event that is happening to her.. Sorry to hear kak June.. This is the 2nd sad story about this FeLv this year for me.. When it comes to penyakit/sakit kucing, dun draw the line between stray ker, BYB ker..They are still cats..We can't control what's happening inside their body..

No offence to anybody tho..Peace for the world..hehehe
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  #65  
Old 07-17-2009, 03:29 PM
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Default Re: FeLV

Kucing kutip saya pun semuanya sihat-sihat sampai sekarang juga, Kak Hate.

June, if it concerns something like FeLV for the cats, kan, if you are going to check for the illness, you must follow-up with confirmation otherwise you might as well forget about it and go on life as usual and be happy with your kids roaming as strictly indoor kids as they have been doing for all those elephant months inside your house because they could not have just came down with it last week and if indeed any of them are infected, by now all would have been exposed through direct contact and what is the use of stressing each and every one of them by caging them all up? If they enjoy being caged, tak per lah ... but they go amok instead!

Sorry la, after reading all the FeLV info on the internet to educate cat owners about the illness, and in line with FeLV education material that I read, I have to say that without the confirmation test, I would not accept a given "positive" result for my cat, June! Not till I have all the confirmations done anyway! But it costs your wallet, not the clinic's .... unfortunately ...

Jangan luper taroh the kurma in the fridge, ahhhhhhh ..... I got some too ... hehehheeee!!!!
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Last edited by FurKids; 07-17-2009 at 03:40 PM.
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  #66  
Old 07-17-2009, 03:35 PM
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Default Re: FeLV

June,

How's Coklat now? Home yet?

Make Coklat as comfy as possible. Let's love conquer all!
Sometimes, it is not how long one lives but how happy or content they lived!
I am sure Coklat and "gang" loves you from the bottom of their hearts.
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  #67  
Old 07-17-2009, 03:55 PM
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Default Re: FeLV

With so many false positive / negative results, sometimes I wonder if it is necessary to subject healthy cats of over 8mths to FeLV test.

I believe test should only be used to diagnosed FeLV together with other clinical symptons, but if you have 8 cats running around (indoor), one down with FeLV but rest are healthy should you be "very, very" worried?

Secondly, these 8 cats have been together for months, I am sure they have been "exposed"? So, what good will it do testing all these healthy 7 cats when results are prone to false positives and even negatives??!? It is still taking a risk? I could have accidentally confine one false positive to positive and he gets positive? Or a false negative to negative and in turn both becomes positive?

I like what FK said,
"...otherwise you might as well forget about it and go on life as usual and be happy with your kids roaming as strictly indoor kids as they have been doing for all those elephant months inside your house because they could not have just came down with it last week and if indeed any of them are infected, by now all would have been exposed through direct contact and what is the use of stressing each and every one of them by caging them all up? If they enjoy being caged, tak per lah ... but they go amok instead!"
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  #68  
Old 07-17-2009, 04:03 PM
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Default Re: FeLV

June, seekor burung pipit kasi tahu bahawa June tanyer mengenai "Felton Floor Mats" ... itu kita guna utk bathroom or other wet floor surfaces tu ...

... kan aku pernah cerita kat kampung lama dulu? so that their little feet tu selesa sikit semasa berjalan/berdiri dlm cage ...

Dulu Carrefour saya ada nampak, murah giler tapi warna pilihan not so good ... most kedai jual benda plastik mcm baldi, basin, etc ada jual ... tapi yg brand Felton punyer pattern paling selesa utk kaki mereka.
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  #69  
Old 07-17-2009, 04:20 PM
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Default Re: FeLV

Quote:
Originally Posted by FurKids View Post
June, seekor burung pipit kasi tahu bahawa June tanyer mengenai "Felton Floor Mats" ... itu kita guna utk bathroom or other wet floor surfaces tu ...

... kan aku pernah cerita kat kampung lama dulu? so that their little feet tu selesa sikit semasa berjalan/berdiri dlm cage ...

Dulu Carrefour saya ada nampak, murah giler tapi warna pilihan not so good ... most kedai jual benda plastik mcm baldi, basin, etc ada jual ... tapi yg brand Felton punyer pattern paling selesa utk kaki mereka.
June, bro FK...aku guna ni jugak kat cage sibulu di rumah, walaupun durang tu jarang dicage. Murah....dulu RM3.50 sekeping. Tapi skrg dah naik RM4.00. Tu harga winner pets plaza, ttdi ...
kalau ko nak..nanti aku tolong belikan...berapa keping ko nak ?

selesa la sikit coklat, PP, oni dan daybonk dok dlm cage ....


YAYA 5 bln....masa bulu tak berapa nak ada ..
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  #70  
Old 07-17-2009, 04:45 PM
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Default FeLV

hahhahahahah!! u guys really make my day.aku dah ketawa sorang sorang baca your posting especially kurma tu.sorilah brader,kurma is for me & my husband.your want,kena masak sendiri

FK,Zai,itu felton mat aku tak panggil felton mat.aku org kampung.kita org panggil toilet mat Zai,kat jusco ada jual juga.blh lah aku gi sana mlm ni.

Bina,Coklat starting eating again,my husband tending to her right now. mulut bising,meow2 saja Peterpan toksah cakaplah.mengamuk saja dlm cage
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  #71  
Old 07-17-2009, 04:45 PM
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Default Re: FeLV

Quote:
Originally Posted by adamyala View Post
June, bro FK...aku guna ni jugak kat cage sibulu di rumah, walaupun durang tu jarang dicage. Murah....dulu RM3.50 sekeping. Tapi skrg dah naik RM4.00. Tu harga winner pets plaza, ttdi ...
kalau ko nak..nanti aku tolong belikan...berapa keping ko nak ?

selesa la sikit coklat, PP, oni dan daybonk dok dlm cage ....


YAYA 5 bln....masa bulu tak berapa nak ada ..
Wahdoiiii, Mama Adam .... napa Mama Adam asyik bayar lebih ajer? Terramycin pun bayar lebih ... sekarang Felton Floor Mat pun bayar lebihan ... mai Kak Zai ikot tangan adik FK bila nak sofing ....

Beli dulu kat kedai Damansara Utama hanya lebih kurang RM11 satu pek yg mengandungi 6 kefing ... Carrefour jual RM9.00 satu pek masa tu ... Winner's Pet Plaza saya tak cuker ... cekik darah nyer ... memang mereka jual RM3.50 satu keping! maklumlah orang kayer-kayer TTDI banyak darah .... hehehheheheee!!!!
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  #72  
Old 07-17-2009, 04:48 PM
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Default FeLV

Bina,100% true tp I yg jd gila meroyan when the whole gang gone one by one


Quote:
Originally Posted by sillylupie View Post
June,

How's Coklat now? Home yet?

Make Coklat as comfy as possible. Let's love conquer all!
Sometimes, it is not how long one lives but how happy or content they lived!
I am sure Coklat and "gang" loves you from the bottom of their hearts.
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  #73  
Old 07-17-2009, 04:49 PM
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Default Re: FeLV

Quote:
Originally Posted by FurKids View Post
Wahdoiiii, Mama Adam .... napa Mama Adam asyik bayar lebih ajer? Terramycin pun bayar lebih ... sekarang Felton Floor Mat pun bayar lebihan ... mai Kak Zai ikot tangan adik FK bila nak sofing ....

Beli dulu kat kedai Damansara Utama hanya lebih kurang RM11 satu pek yg mengandungi 6 kefing ... Carrefour jual RM9.00 satu pek masa tu ... Winner's Pet Plaza saya tak cuker ... cekik darah nyer ... memang mereka jual RM3.50 satu keping! maklumlah orang kayer-kayer TTDI banyak darah .... hehehheheheee!!!!
wakakak !!! aku tak larat nak gi suping jauh2

yang dekat2 umah aku jer yang aku nampak...

bila nak gi suping sama2 tu bro ?

jom jom jom...jom heboh heboh !!!!!

*june...suker aku tengok ko dah gelak..*
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  #74  
Old 07-17-2009, 04:55 PM
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Default Re: FeLV

Sob! Sob! June tak kasi share kurma dia, suruh saya masak sondrik, jadi aku terpaksa sofing cari rempah kurma dulu ....

Have a nice weekend, kawan-kawan ... especially you, June & hubby ... have a good time with the kids ...
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  #75  
Old 07-17-2009, 04:57 PM
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Default FeLV

hahahahhahah!! yalah,org cite pasal kuicng si FK cite pasal kurma.cite pasal kurma pastu pasal felton mat.mana aku tak gelak

brader,selamat memasak kurma


Quote:
Originally Posted by adamyala View Post
wakakak !!! aku tak larat nak gi suping jauh2

yang dekat2 umah aku jer yang aku nampak...

bila nak gi suping sama2 tu bro ?

jom jom jom...jom heboh heboh !!!!!

*june...suker aku tengok ko dah gelak..*
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  #76  
Old 07-17-2009, 08:38 PM
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Default Re: FeLV

KAK JUNE!!!!!!!!!!!

Masya-allah! Lama tak baca thread kat sini terkejut dengar berita ni

Harap2 Kak June banyak2 bersabar yer...... PP dgn Oni +ve FeLV? Kena kurung asingkan? Coklat pulak macam mana? Saya tak tau nak cakap macam mana ni.. sedihnya Kak June tak dapat dibayangkan. Sabar yer.. maybe ada cara lain? Apa2 pun... usahakan sedaya upaya!!

Give them lots of love and keep them all happy, lets pray for a miracle!


P/S: Harap Kak June tabah menghadapi dugaan. Be strong for all your furkids
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  #77  
Old 07-17-2009, 09:34 PM
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Default Re: FeLV

dear furkid and june,

the bunch of cats that was brought by june for dr chee to test was using the IDEXX ELISA test kit approved by the AAFP

The IFA test is only done in VRI, Ipoh

Last edited by pandorabox78; 07-17-2009 at 09:43 PM.
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  #78  
Old 07-20-2009, 10:01 AM
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Default Re: FeLV

Quote:
Originally Posted by June View Post
Bro,aku call Dr Chee,he said dia buat ANTI GEN test bukan ELISA & IFA.Ambil blood test.

Daybonk and Mokmok kurang mau makan,kencing warna oren,moody and spend most of their time sleeping.tak mcm selalu. itu mcm Coklat punya symptoms dulu. Daybonk not as kurus as Mokmok. Fening,fening
Quote:
Originally Posted by pandorabox78 View Post
dear furkid and june, the bunch of cats that was brought by june for dr chee to test was using the IDEXX ELISA test kit approved by the AAFP
Aiyoh, Dr Chee, cakap la betol-betol ... first bukan ELISA pastu ELISA pulak ... tengok ... Mama PP pun sudah feniang lalat jadinya ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by pandorabox78 View Post
The IFA test is only done in VRI, Ipoh
So what happens next?
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  #79  
Old 07-20-2009, 10:22 AM
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Default Re: FeLV

June, nah ... ubat tido kau utk baca ..... atau buat bantal ........... the IDEXX ELISA technical guide from http://www.idexx.com/production/elisa/0965846.pdf
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  #80  
Old 07-20-2009, 10:40 AM
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Default Reliability of SNAP tests

Quote:
Originally Posted by June View Post
takde hantar for IFA test.just pakai the kit as u said earlier. but then, itu test pun accurate jugakan??
June, I found this interesting read from http://www.mail-archive.com/felvtalk.../msg22738.html ...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Reliability of SNAP tests
by Jennifer Phaewryn O'Gwynn
Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:06:58 -0800


I'm going to post this reply in 3 logical parts.

Part 1 explains why ANY test could result in a false result, due to the nature of the viruses.

Part 2 explains the operator error aspect of the procedure.

Part 3 actually talks about the studied nature of false testing results on various types of tests, the IDEXX SNAP being one of the ones included in the study.

Part 1.

From the IDEXX website (the people that make the SNAP test):

FIV Testing

Antibodies can be detected in the blood about 60 days post-exposure to FIV, although it may be much later. Antibody ELISA is the most common method for FIV testing, with two tests available: the in-house IDEXX SNAP® FIV/FeLV Combo Test and the laboratory IDEXX PetChek® assay.

The Western blot is the confirmatory test for FIV; however, in a recent study, the sensitivity and specificity of the IDEXX SNAP® FIV/FeLV Combo Test and IDEXX PetChek® for FIV were 100% and Western blot was 98% when compared to virus isolation.4

A small number of cats infected with FIV do not produce detectable antibody and will have a false-negative test on both ELISA and Western blot.

Unfortunately, screening for FIV antigen is not possible because of the low level of circulating virus after acute infection.

FeLV Testing

The in-house IDEXX SNAP® FIV/FeLV Combo Test and laboratory IDEXX PetChek® assay test for the p27 core antigen of FeLV.

Cats will test positive around 30 days post-exposure on both of the IDEXX ELISA tests.

The pathogenesis of FeLV can take one of three paths. Cats can be transiently infected and then clear the virus around 12–16 weeks after exposure.

They can also develop a latent infection, in which case both the IDEXX SNAP® FIV/FeLV Combo Test and IFA test will be negative.

Latently infected cats can harbor the virus in their bone marrow for years with no clinical signs. Most latently infected cats can eventually clear the infection, but in a small percentage, the virus can reactivate and clinical FeLV can occur later in life.

This reactivation of latent virus explains why a nine-year-old cat that has tested negative and lived indoors alone may suddenly become ill and test positive for FeLV.

Cats can also be persistently infected, clinical or nonclinical, but these cats may be shedding virus. Kittens can become infected transplacentally from infected queens, but are more likely to become infected during grooming.

As with FIV, not all kittens in a litter may be become infected with FeLV from infected queens, so pooling of sera in a litter or only testing one kitten or an infected queen is not recommended.

Kittens infected with FeLV have a poorer prognosis for long-term survival than adult cats, which can live for years with the virus.


Part 2.

In additon, lots of false results are directly in relation to bad testing kit usage, in other words, not following the instructions fully.

As you can read on this UK IDEXX website, the instructions are complex. The kits come with solution, the right bottle of solution must be used with the right kit (from the same batch), the test kit must be stored at a certain temperature (this includes during the shipping to the vet's office), the blood must be a certain tempature.

The test kit must be room temperature before using (but has to be stored cold) and the website says wait 30 minutes after removing from refridgerator (how many times have you had to wait 30 minutes in the exam room for the test kit to warm to room temperature?)... it goes on and on. Operator error alone creates a vast number of false results. http://www.idexx.com/animalhealth/te.../060148205.pdf


Part 3.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...i?artid=545975 on the subject of IDEXX SNAP FIV tests kits:

Most available FIV diagnostic tests detect serum, plasma, or whole blood antibodies to FIV.

An enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay (ELISA) consisting of labeled antigens that are immobilized on either a membrane or a plastic well, and bind to antibodies, is the only available FIV test for commercial or in-practice laboratories in North America.

The test comes in kit format for in-practice use (SNAP FIV Antibody/FeLV Antigen Combo Test; IDEXX, Westbrook, Maine, USA), or in a microwell format for laboratory use (PetChek FIV Antibody Test Kit; IDEXX).

This ELISA is based on detection of antibodies against a core viral protein, p24, and a positive or negative result depends on color development relative to a positive control (8).

Other available serological tests include a Western blot and an immunofluorescent antibody (IFA) test (9).

Advantages of the Western blot are that antibodies reactive with a range of viral proteins, derived from nondomestic cat FIV, are detectable; however, it is technically more demanding and more costly.

Immunofluorescent antibody tests are not commonly used to diagnose FIV infection, and little is known regarding their performance.

The microwell ELISA used in veterinary laboratories has been described as having high sensitivity and specificity (9). False negative results are rare and due mostly to acute infection prior to the generation of specific antibodies.

False positive results have been attributed to poor technique and nonspecific reactivity against tissue culture components following vaccination (10).

Similar information is not available for the in-practice ELISA kit; however, up to 20% of in-practice positive samples submitted for Western blot confirmation were identified as false positives (10).

This discrepancy has been attributed to more frequent operator error in veterinary practices as opposed to veterinary laboratories (10).

Based on these test characteristics, it was recommended that a positive in-practice ELISA in a healthy cat be confirmed with a Western blot.

Results

The veterinary diagnostic laboratories reported results as “FIV-positive” or “FIV-negative,” the research laboratory reported results as “positive,” “negative,” or “equivocal.” An “equivocal” result referred to a distinct PCR product that differed by 100 bp or less from the predicted size.

Ten cats categorized as “FIV-positive” were all confirmed as positive by KELA. The ELISA results from the veterinary diagnostic laboratory agreed with the KELA result in all 10 FIV positive samples (Table 1).

The PCR results from laboratories X, Y, and Z were in concordance with the infection category and KELA result in 100%, 80%, and 50% of cases, respectively. There was no consistency in the identification of false negative samples by PCR between the 2 different laboratories.

Sequence analysis of the PCR products from the research laboratory identified FIV-subtypes A, B, and C (Table 1). The sequences clearly clustered with established FIV subtypes (Figure 1).

Among 14 cats categorized as “FIV-negative,” 10 confirmatory negative KELA results and 4 discordant or equivocal results were obtained. The ELISA result agreed with the negative KELA result for 9 of these 10 samples.

Among the cats with concordant FIV category and KELA result, the PCR results from labs X, Y, and Z agreed in 100%, 90%, and 70% of cases, respectively (Table 1). There was no apparent correlation between the false positive results obtained by either of the 2 diagnostic laboratories.

Four samples were categorized as “FIV-negative,” according to criteria described previously, but yielded positive or equivocal KELA results (Table 1). Among these discordant samples, 1 was categorized as “FIVnegative,” yielded a positive KELA result, and tested negative in 2 PCR assays and the ELISA.

The Western blot was equivocal in this case. Three other samples categorized as “FIV-negative” yielded equivocal KELA results, and 2 could not be resolved by Western blot testing either. One sample with an equivocal KELA result yielded a positive Western blot interpretation.

The PCR and ELISA results were variable for these 4 cases (Table 1). The FIV infection status could not be resolved for these 4 cats through these tests, and they were therefore considered “discordant.”

Blood samples from the dogs yielded negative KELA results in all 3 cases, 1 positive ELISA result, and a range of positive, negative, or equivocal PCR results (Table 1). The sequence of the 2 “equivocal” PCR products from 1 cat and 1 dog obtained in the research laboratory had a similar sequence but no homology with retroviral sequences in GenBank. Each had short stretches (25 to 40 bp) of homology with feline major histocompatibility (MHC) class II genes and canine sequences of unidentified origin.

(it's a huge study paper, go read it all, it says a LOT on the topic of various testing types and results, and the false negatives and positives.)


Jennifer Phaewryn O'Gwynn
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Last edited by FurKids; 07-20-2009 at 12:21 PM.
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