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  #1  
Old 03-21-2009, 06:41 PM
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Exclamation Online Etiquette - How To Deal With A Forum Bully

There are forum trolls and there are forum bullies. The latter is worse, because the latter is not so obvious.

So, how do we recognize and deal with a forum bully?

------------
The Nature of Forums
Online forums are no different than any other group formed by people throughout human history. There are leaders, followers, outsiders. For convenience, you can look at a forum as kingdom. There's usually a king and a queen, a prince and princess, court jesters, members of the nobility, wise old advisors and outsiders. While an online forum is a trivial kingdom, remember that people defend their kingdoms, no matter how small. It could be an office, a playground, a seat at the table, or a forum.

Troll or Bully?
In many ways, I have more respect for a troll than a forum bully. At least a troll is direct. If you pick up a snake, and it bites you, whose fault is that? The snake was just doing what it does. It's the same with trolls. Their intentions are obvious - they're in the forum to disrupt and cause trouble. They arrive with all the subtlety of a jet on a landing strip.

Forum bullies are harder to spot. They disguise their intentions. But make no mistake. When you encounter one, you will know - because their bite is equally malicious and just as full of venom.

What is a Forum Bully?
A forum bully is school ground throwback. Remember that middle school bully with his pathetic little band of sycophantic followers? That's a forum bully. In ways the forum bully is just a pseudonym for a troll, but with a major difference. While the troll's behavior is condemned by the group, the forum bully's actions are condoned by the group. Established members of the group, who don't agree with the forum bully, usually remain quiet while the bully tears apart people just for sport and as a demonstration of power within the forum.

Evolution of a Forum Bully
Forum bullies are typically intelligent. They usually begin as helpful members of the forum. But as their power grows, their true nature reveals itself. Once established, forum bullies begin mixing their helpful posts with intimidation. As they evolve, and develop a reputation, they attract followers. The followers serve as back up, often times speaking on behalf of the bully to clarify the forum bully's statements. Other times the followers are like a pack of hyenas jumping in for the kill after the bully has drawn blood.

As the forum bully fully evolves, she begins to feel immune to attack. She states her opinion regardless of accuracy or consequence, knowing full well that she can always rely on the support of followers to bail her out of trouble.

Enablers
The danger of a forum bully is two-fold. In one respect, the forum bully makes the other respected members of the forum appear hypocritical to an outsider. When the forum bully spouts her own brand of nonsense, when the forum bully tears apart other forum members for no reason other than because she can, it makes other members of the forum look bad - simply because the very behavior a troll is ostracized for, is the exact same behavior permitted to the forum bully. The double standard so created reeks of hypocrisy and undermines the legitimacy of everyone who does not call the forum bully out for her repugnant behavior.

The forum bully is not stupid. The bully will never attack other respected members of the forum. She will also mix her attacks between those who genuinely deserve being attacked, and those she attacks for fun. After all, the only way a forum bully stays in business is with the consent of the other members of the forum. And she knows the fine line between being labeled a troll and being called blunt or to the point.

The other danger of a forum bully is that she creates an atmosphere of fear within the forum - not fear among the established members, but rather fear among those outsiders who want to participate in the forum. It is this fear that enables the forum bully to operate. A forum operates on the classic in-group/out-group dynamic. The bully's behavior is tolerated because of an understanding of this dynamic. You don't attack those within the inner circle, only those outside it.

If one of the respected members of the forum were to call the bully what she is, a petty, repugnant fraction of a human being, this member risks losing position within the forum. The resulting forum is a place in which comments are guarded. Politics are played. And the free flow of information is stifled. This is the true danger of allowing a forum bully to continue her activities. By not calling her out, the forum loses part of the dynamic it was created to foster. The forum bully also undermines the legitimacy of everyone else in the forum.

How to Spot a Forum Bully
The key is in the comments. Look at how most forum members reply to comments. Most are polite. They may disagree but they do so with a level of respect for the opinions of others, unless those opinions are genuinely ludicrous. The forum bully does not respect anyone but herself. She respects the power of others in the group, but nothing else. Everyone is beneath her. Her comments are made without regard to the feelings of anyone but herself. And if she is wrong, she cannot admit it. To do so would undermine her power. While others in the group will add prefaces to their comments or phrase their comments in the form of suggestions, the forum bully will tell others what to do, like a master issuing orders to slaves. When called on this approach, the forum bully's followers will claim the bully is just being blunt. After all the bully is the source of all truth, and their own sense of power.

What to do When Attacked by a Forum Bully
Unfortunately if you are an outsider, there's not much you can do. To attack the bully often will cause the more established members of the forum to close ranks and dispel the outsider. There's a certain logic in this. As an outsider, you've yet to prove whether you're worth defending - especially against an established member of the forum.

If you're a semi-established member of the forum, you stand a better chance. But know that politically, most people will not back you up because to do so risks losing position within the forum - in short, it's bad politics.

If attacked by a forum bully, disagree politely then get out. Diffuse the situation with silence. Remember, others will read your posts and make determinations about you. Even the most skillful defense will dash up against the walls of the kingdom. Besides, you may have more people rooting for you than you think. Forum bullies are not necessarily liked by the more respected members of the forum, they are merely tolerated because they are part of the inner circle.

The article above is extracted from:
http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...al.html?cat=15
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  #2  
Old 03-21-2009, 09:09 PM
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Default Re: Online Etiquette - How To Deal With A Forum Bully

Very good knowledge, after reading this it's not so hard to spot the forum bullies.
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  #3  
Old 03-21-2009, 09:16 PM
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Default Re: Online Etiquette - How To Deal With A Forum Bully

good one charlene very informative
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  #4  
Old 03-21-2009, 09:38 PM
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Default Re: Online Etiquette - How To Deal With A Forum Bully

owh...me likey!
let me name some forum bullies i know...muahahahahaha....
but better, siapa yang termakan cili, dia yang terasa pedasnya...hohoho...
but even better let's not use this thread to attack the bullies and be the same level as them ya..so not worth it..
let this just be a pengajaran for them...
however still no wrong in defending yourself if you were bullied...

say taknak to forum bullies!yeah!
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  #5  
Old 03-21-2009, 09:58 PM
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Default Re: Online Etiquette - How To Deal With A Forum Bully

That's right, Zee, don't use this thread to attack the bullies or we'll drop to their level. This thread is only for the purpose of spotting the forum bullies and knowing how to deal with them.

And now.....I'm going to post an article on forum trolls. Hang on.
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  #6  
Old 03-21-2009, 10:08 PM
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Default Definition of A Forum Troll

There are two senses of the word "troll." In the original sense it meant someone, usually an outsider, who deliberately stirred up fights in a forum by saying controversial things. [1] For example, someone who didn't use a certain programming language might go to a forum for users of that language and make disparaging remarks about it, then sit back and watch as people rose to the bait. This sort of trolling was in the nature of a practical joke, like letting a bat loose in a room full of people.

The definition then spread to people who behaved like assholes in forums, whether intentionally or not. Now when people talk about trolls they usually mean this broader sense of the word. Though in a sense this is historically inaccurate, it is in other ways more accurate, because when someone is being an asshole it's usually uncertain even in their own mind how much is deliberate. That is arguably one of the defining qualities of an asshole.

I think trolling in the broader sense has a few causes. The most important is distance. People will say things in anonymous forums that they'd never dare say to someone's face, just as they'll do things in cars that they'd never do as pedestrians—like tailgate people, or honk at them, or cut them off.

Another cause of trolling is incompetence. If you disagree with something, it's easier to say "you suck" than to figure out and explain exactly what you disagree with. You're also safe that way from refutation. In this respect trolling is a lot like graffiti. Graffiti happens at the intersection of ambition and incompetence: people want to make their mark on the world, but have no other way to do it than literally making a mark on the world. [2]

The final contributing factor is the culture of the forum. Trolls are like children (many are children) in that they're capable of a wide range of behavior depending on what they think will be tolerated. In a place where rudeness isn't tolerated, most can be polite. But vice versa as well.

There's a sort of Gresham's Law of trolls: trolls are willing to use a forum with a lot of thoughtful people in it, but thoughtful people aren't willing to use a forum with a lot of trolls in it. Which means that once trolling takes hold, it tends to become the dominant culture. That had already happened to Slashdot and Digg by the time I paid attention to comment threads there, but I watched it happen to Reddit.

News.YC is, among other things, an experiment to see if this fate can be avoided. The sites's guidelines explicitly ask people not to say things they wouldn't say face to face. If someone starts being rude, other users will step in and tell them to stop. And when people seem to be deliberately trolling, we ban them ruthlessly.

Technical tweaks may also help. On Reddit, votes on your comments don't affect your karma score, but they do on News.YC. And it does seem to influence people when they can see their reputation in the eyes of their peers drain away after making an asshole remark. Often users have second thoughts and delete such comments.

One might worry this would prevent people from expressing controversial ideas, but empirically that doesn't seem to be what happens. When people say something substantial that gets modded down, they stubbornly leave it up. What people delete are wisecracks, because they have less invested in them.

The above article is extracted from:
http://www.paulgraham.com/trolls.html
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  #7  
Old 03-21-2009, 10:10 PM
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Default Online Etiquette - How To Deal With A Forum Bully

Yuhu!!! Charlene!!!! I think I can smell the forum bully already You know who they are But as Zee said,we do not want to drop to their leve,do we??

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackie007 View Post
That's right, Zee, don't use this thread to attack the bullies or we'll drop to their level. This thread is only for the purpose of spotting the forum bullies and knowing how to deal with them.

And now.....I'm going to post an article on forum trolls. Hang on.
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  #8  
Old 03-21-2009, 10:13 PM
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Default Re: Online Etiquette - How To Deal With A Forum Bully

Forum bullies and forum trolls. I think it's safe to say we have them here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by June View Post
Yuhu!!! Charlene!!!! I think I can smell the forum bully already You know who they are But as Zee said,we do not want to drop to their leve,do we??
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Old 03-21-2009, 10:23 PM
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Thumbs up Re: Online Etiquette - How To Deal With A Forum Bully

[QUOTE=June;35411]Yuhu!!! Charlene!!!! I think I can smell the forum bully already
yeahhh... i smell wat's da rock is cooking......


to me, easy jek... watpe nk kondem2 other ppl punya opinion.. hak mmasing la... once u ckp, org xmo dgr.. let he/she be watevr they want...1 jari u tunding kt othr ppl.. yg lain pth balik kt u... thinx
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Old 03-22-2009, 01:10 AM
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Default Re: Online Etiquette - How To Deal With A Forum Bully

I never knew what a forum troll was, they used that word a lot on another forum I'm on. I thought it was like strolling but minus the S. xD

Thanks for the information!
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  #11  
Old 03-22-2009, 08:40 AM
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Default Re: Online Etiquette - How To Deal With A Forum Bully

lol same here :)
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  #12  
Old 03-22-2009, 11:40 AM
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Default Re: Online Etiquette - How To Deal With A Forum Bully

I've thought a lot over the last couple month about the problem of trolls. But we're still just learning what the causes are and how to address them. i was a victim of forum bullies at here.
There are two senses of the word "troll and bullies." In the original sense it meant someone, usually an outsider, who deliberately stirred up fights in a forum by saying controversial things. find your weak point. For example, someone who didn't use a certain language might go to a forum for users of that language and make disparaging remarks about it, It will bite your tail never let go. This sort of trolling was in the nature of a practical joke, like letting a bat loose in a room full of people.
trolls are willing to use a forum with a lot of thoughtful people in it, but thoughtful people aren't willing to use a forum with a lot of trolls in it. Which means that once trolling takes hold, it tends to become the dominant culture.
it is in other ways more accurate, because when someone is being an asshole it's usually uncertain even in their own mind how much is deliberate. That is arguably one of the defining qualities of an asshole.
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Old 03-22-2009, 11:35 PM
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Talking Re: Online Etiquette - How To Deal With A Forum Bully


we should wear this !!!!
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  #14  
Old 03-23-2009, 12:09 AM
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Default Re: Online Etiquette - How To Deal With A Forum Bully

I found more interesting articles......

This one is really funny, to me, anyway. Members of a forum signed a petition to ban the trolls in their forum, but decided to give amnesty (that means, don't ban him) to one particular troll because they got attached to him.

----------First Article---------
To: New Castle News Forum
Respectful members of the human race:

The level of trolls that has infested the New Castle News forum has reached a critical level. To address this grave threat, I propose that administrative rights be granted to "Lycanthrope" in order that he may ban abrasive posters at will.

All current forum members with more than 50 posts will automatically be given unconditional lifetime amnesty....including J. Bilger (OK, it pained me a little, but he's OUR troll and I think we've grown attached).

Peace through superior internet firepower.

Sincerely,

The Undersigned


View Current Signatures


Extracted from: http://www.petitiononline.com/ban1trol/petition.html

----------------End of article---------

And one forum has a thread dedicated to discussion on trolls and bullies, the similarities & differences between them. I found it quite educational.


-----------Second Article---------

Trolls versus Internet Bullies
I actually find that there are two classes of people who cause maximum trouble on forums. One is of course, the traditional "troll" who wreaks havoc by anti-social behaviour and by deliberately riling up forum members to get kicks out of it, causing havoc and bad blood in the process.

I think as admins, we need to realize that there is another group which I would term as "online bullies" or "internet bullies" who can become equally destructive in undermining communities.

These gentlemen/ladies differ from trolls in the sense that they are not anti-social, but they are an accepted and sometimes well-respected members who assume a sort of informal and unofficial leadership role. They use this position to intimidate and assert their views on newer and less established members and often push their weight around to mark territorial rights. They will generally try and behave properly, but subtly try and behave like moderators and preach about forum behaviour. They will also turn and insult people as they wish and surprisingly other forum members will turn a blind eye to them. They will usually "adopt" ownership of a single forum or a subforum of a board and hang out there frequently with their clan. (this feature is usually more common in larger forums)

These people are often the starting point of cliques because they can gather a group of yes-people around them in no time.

Beware of these people and watch out for them because they can be a lot more trouble in the long run than isolated trolls running loose.

Sometimes you just need an excellent troll to combat an established forum bully

Similarities between trolls and bullies:
Both trolls and bullies can cause enormous damage to a forum by their behaviour.
Both trolls and bullies usually have excellent communication skills using which they attack their opponents unmercifully.
Both trolls and bullies can be intimidating to any normal forum user.
Both trolls and bullies have the effect of creating bad blood.
Both trolls and bullies are hard to control without intervention right from the top - the forum administrator(s) or owner(s) because even moderators might find it hard to control them without support from others.

Differences
Trolls are usually isolated. They are generally short-lived in a forum. A person who signs up on a forum specifically to troll doesn't hang around in other parts of the forum and leaves as soon as the damage is done.
Bullies are more or less regular forum members who might have a huge post count and a following.
Trolls usually hit and run. A successful troll needs only a couple of posts in a single thread to turn it into a raging tornado.
Bullies stay on and intimidate other members by throwing their weight around and using their group of yes-people to lend force to their powerful attacks.
Trolls are usually identified for what they are.
Bullies rarely get identified for what they are, because they are regular members and nobody can suggest that they are ordinary trolls because they have a huge post count.
Trolls hardly respond to challenges. Instead they enjoy watching others fight.
Bullies enjoy fighting and run around bashing everybody who dares oppose them.
The potential damage done by trolls is limited to a particular topic of discussion or at most a forum.
The potential damage done by bullies is forum-wide and not related to topics, but to the personality of the bully and the kind of respect and influence he wields.


The article above is extracted from:
http://www.theadminzone.com/forums/s...26193&p=189571


-------------End of article-------

Do visit the adminzone forum and see what other members have to say. That forum is like the "behind the scene" of a bad soap opera.

Last edited by blackie007; 03-23-2009 at 03:15 PM. Reason: forgot to add URL for article 1
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Old 03-23-2009, 11:09 PM
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Default Re: Online Etiquette - How To Deal With A Forum Bully

Wow! Blackie... wonderful post! wonderful post indeed.. where in the world did you find this gem of an article? Looks like it's up to Andy and I ultimately to kick some butts in the near future eh??

I have been on forums for quite a while now and I can certainly see the truths of the article. Forum bullies are hard to root out, because they are like lalang, if you don't pull out the roots, they will grow again and again....

Anyways, when attacked, i say defend yourself... And I suggest the rest, if you see wrong, don't just do nothing. Please help the victims because what's worse than a bully is a bystander doing nothing.

I once heard a saying that goes something like this: "When peace loving people do nothing, they only encourage evil'.. well, something like that..
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Old 03-23-2009, 11:22 PM
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Default Re: Online Etiquette - How To Deal With A Forum Bully

hahaha.....Ezer, it occurred to me that there might be such a term as forum bullies, so i just googled it. you'll be amazed at the number of results that turned up. and that's also where i learned that there are forum trolls too.

looks like it's the bane of forums worldwide. it's the latest playground for them. so, you and andy have to start ruthlessly kicking butts.

and i absolutely agree with the call below (text in bold).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezer View Post
Wow! Blackie... wonderful post! wonderful post indeed.. where in the world did you find this gem of an article? Looks like it's up to Andy and I ultimately to kick some butts in the near future eh??

I have been on forums for quite a while now and I can certainly see the truths of the article. Forum bullies are hard to root out, because they are like lalang, if you don't pull out the roots, they will grow again and again....

Anyways, when attacked, i say defend yourself... And I suggest the rest, if you see wrong, don't just do nothing. Please help the victims because what's worse than a bully is a bystander doing nothing.

I once heard a saying that goes something like this: "When peace loving people do nothing, they only encourage evil'.. well, something like that..

Last edited by blackie007; 03-23-2009 at 11:41 PM. Reason: add missing word
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Old 03-23-2009, 11:28 PM
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Default Re: Online Etiquette - How To Deal With A Forum Bully

Blackie, Good one.. you shall be our 'research scientist' from now on.. hehe...

You have basically made very clear to everyone what's going on here...
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Old 03-23-2009, 11:39 PM
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Default Re: Online Etiquette - How To Deal With A Forum Bully

aww, it's cronyism to hold 2 posts....i'm already the spy mah....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezer View Post
Blackie, Good one.. you shall be our 'research scientist' from now on.. hehe...

You have basically made very clear to everyone what's going on here...
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Old 03-23-2009, 11:48 PM
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Default Re: Online Etiquette - How To Deal With A Forum Bully

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackie007 View Post
aww, it's cronyism to hold 2 posts....i'm already the spy mah....
Ok lah.. you're the spy.... and I am still Superman!! no one's gonna steal my red underwear.. !! *please tell Andy I am gonna kick his butt if he sneaks into my locker and take my underwear again**
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Old 03-24-2009, 11:27 AM
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Default Re: Online Etiquette - How To Deal With A Forum Bully

oh, Andy didn't mean any harm. He just felt very kinky that day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezer View Post
Ok lah.. you're the spy.... and I am still Superman!! no one's gonna steal my red underwear.. !! *please tell Andy I am gonna kick his butt if he sneaks into my locker and take my underwear again**
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