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Old 02-24-2013, 04:53 PM
wkquek wkquek is offline
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Default Our Experience with Sylvercrest Kennels, Penang

I'm new here and would like to relate a very sad experience that I had with a breeder from Penang, called Sylvercrest Kennels. My wife and I wanted a french bulldog puppy. We found Sylvercrest, picked a puppy from her new litter, and went pick up Odysseus in early January this year.

After 2 weeks with him, he passed away while playing with a friend's dog. I can't tell you how sad we were. The vet issued a letter saying that he had a severe case of elongated soft pallate and his airway collapsed from over excitement. Elongated soft pallate is a common ailment in Frenchies but the vet verified that this was a severe case.

We contacted the breeder asking for a full refund but she refused; instead offering 50% off on another Frenchie or free replacement of another breed of puppy. After a few emails back end forth, she has refused to budge from this offer.

We consulted with a few parties and realized a few things that were not quite right:
  1. We were not given a contract to sign stating terms and conditions of sale
  2. We were not advised to take him for a vet check up
  3. After we forwarded our our complaint, she dug up some other contracts from the internet and stated that her contract only covers 1 week after purchase
  4. She kept quoting that no other local breeders would give a guarantee for more than 1 week but one of the contracts that SHE FORWARDED TO ME stated coverage of 6 MONTHS on life threatening genetic defects
  5. Breeder did not furnish us with an actual MKA Cert number
  6. We were not allowed to see Ody's parents or his living conditions
  7. She delayed delivery to us a few times, forcing us to go up to Penang from KL to pick up Ody
  8. She constantly sold herself as far superior to "local Malaysian backyard breeders" in quality and service

I'm now looking into what further action can be taken legally but just to inform every one out there, this breeder markets themselves as premium but from our experience they conduct themselves very unprofessionally.

Recently we purchased Penelope from Mr Ho, a self proclaimed "back yard breeder" who was SO much nicer:
  1. We were immediately allowed to visit his house to view his whole Frenchie family, who are happy and well adjusted, living comfortably together
  2. Penelope is the same age as Ody but more than 2 times larger! She is healthy and robust
  3. We have a contract that covers death from genetic defect for 6 months
  4. His price was 30% cheaper

From this experience, some breeders may sell themselves as reputable and premium but if they are a small outfit, they may just be backyard breeders who are better at marketing - all talk and no substance. End of the day, it may be better to buy from a genuine backyard breeder who is open and transparent. Of course, please do your due diligence
  1. Take your puppy to a vet for a routine check after purchasing
  2. Meet your puppies parents
  3. Make sure you have a contract signed

And please take good care of your new family member!

Last edited by wkquek; 02-24-2013 at 05:30 PM.
  #2  
Old 02-26-2013, 06:27 PM
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Maneki Neko Maneki Neko is offline
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Default Re: Our Sad Experience with Sylvercrest Kennels, Penang

Quote:
Originally Posted by wkquek View Post
I'm new here and would like to relate a very sad experience that I had with a breeder from Penang, called Sylvercrest Kennels. My wife and I wanted a french bulldog puppy. We found Sylvercrest, picked a puppy from her new litter, and went pick up Odysseus in early January this year.

After 2 weeks with him, he passed away while playing with a friend's dog. I can't tell you how sad we were. The vet issued a letter saying that he had a severe case of elongated soft pallate and his airway collapsed from over excitement. Elongated soft pallate is a common ailment in Frenchies but the vet verified that this was a severe case.

We contacted the breeder asking for a full refund but she refused; instead offering 50% off on another Frenchie or free replacement of another breed of puppy. After a few emails back end forth, she has refused to budge from this offer.

We consulted with a few parties and realized a few things that were not quite right:
  1. We were not given a contract to sign stating terms and conditions of sale
  2. We were not advised to take him for a vet check up
  3. After we forwarded our our complaint, she dug up some other contracts from the internet and stated that her contract only covers 1 week after purchase
  4. She kept quoting that no other local breeders would give a guarantee for more than 1 week but one of the contracts that SHE FORWARDED TO ME stated coverage of 6 MONTHS on life threatening genetic defects
  5. Breeder did not furnish us with an actual MKA Cert number
  6. We were not allowed to see Ody's parents or his living conditions
  7. She delayed delivery to us a few times, forcing us to go up to Penang from KL to pick up Ody
  8. She constantly sold herself as far superior to "local Malaysian backyard breeders" in quality and service

I'm now looking into what further action can be taken legally but just to inform every one out there, this breeder markets themselves as premium but from our experience they conduct themselves very unprofessionally.

Recently we purchased Penelope from Mr Ho, a self proclaimed "back yard breeder" who was SO much nicer:
  1. We were immediately allowed to visit his house to view his whole Frenchie family, who are happy and well adjusted, living comfortably together
  2. Penelope is the same age as Ody but more than 2 times larger! She is healthy and robust
  3. We have a contract that covers death from genetic defect for 6 months
  4. His price was 30% cheaper

From this experience, some breeders may sell themselves as reputable and premium but if they are a small outfit, they may just be backyard breeders who are better at marketing - all talk and no substance. End of the day, it may be better to buy from a genuine backyard breeder who is open and transparent. Of course, please do your due diligence
  1. Take your puppy to a vet for a routine check after purchasing
  2. Meet your puppies parents
  3. Make sure you have a contract signed

And please take good care of your new family member!

Thank you for taking the time to write about your experience in so much detail and with such thought! I'm truly sorry that you went through such grief with Odysseus, but if your experience can educate and warn others, some good may still come of it.

Your first list -- of things that didn't seem right to you -- is a superb list of warning signals. These are all signs that you're not dealing with a reputable, ethical breeder.

There is a horrifying list of genetic disorders for almost any breed of dog. Some of the disorders don't manifest for years; in your case, it was much sooner. Until breeders are willing to put love of the animals above their love of money, educate themselves about genetics and the inherited disorders common to their breed, stories like yours will be sadly common. Few people, however, share these stories so that others can learn from them, so thank you again for sharing yours! Best wishes to you and robust little Penelope.
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Old 03-01-2013, 09:44 AM
wkquek wkquek is offline
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Default Re: Our Sad Experience with Sylvercrest Kennels, Penang

Thank you for your kind feedback Maneki. Penelope is doing well, she is well adjusted and happy. The toilet training is going rather slowly tho... haha....

You seem to be quite well versed in the pet owner circles, could you recommend any other avenues where we could share our experience? Thank you
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Old 03-03-2013, 06:30 PM
Sylvercrest Sylvercrest is offline
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Default Re: Our Sad Experience with Sylvercrest Kennels, Penang

It is understandable to sympathize with WKQUEK, but not all breeders are bad and sometimes even if breeders do their best…..the buyer is just not happy or the situation is just plain unfortunate. Please see Sylvercrest Kennel's responses before running to judge…..


I'm new here and would like to relate a very sad experience that I had with a breeder from Penang, called Sylvercrest Kennels. My wife and I wanted a french bulldog puppy. We found Sylvercrest, picked a puppy from her new litter, and went pick up Odysseus in early January this year.

After 2 weeks with him, he passed away while playing with a friend's dog.
The owner was advised not to have their new puppy come into contact with other pets until after the 3rd puppy vaccination was completed. In addition, the new owner was advised to not let a Frenchie, especially a young and easily stressed or excitable Frenchie puppy, get over heated, over stressed or over excited.

I can't tell you how sad we were. The vet issued a letter saying that he had a severe case of elongated soft pallate and his airway collapsed from over excitement. Elongated soft pallate is a common ailment in Frenchies but the vet verified that this was a severe case.

Sylvercrest has a copy of that vet document. A full autopsy was not performed so the vet can only speculate. The vet could also not be absolutely sure as to what events/conditions took place prior to the puppy's eventual collapse so the cause was written as "probable". The new owner's description of the puppy's death was a "sudden collapse"..... most likely due to over exertion from playing with another dog. SEVERE elongated pallate usually comes with earlier indication signs such trouble breathing when exercised, trouble eating, regurgitation of food after eating etc. Their puppy had displayed none of these signs. The new owners were well advised that a French Bulldog puppy was not to be over heated, over excited or over stressed and should be kept indoor with AC.


Sylvercrest has sold many sound, healthy and show quality Frenchie pups, including the direct littermate to this particular puppy. All are doing great, have no breathing issues at all and all are well loved in their new homes. Two even travel to work with their owners everyday, another one is soon to enter his show career. The parents of this particular puppy are also well, extremely active, plays fetch and eats with no difficulty whatsoever. This puppy showed no signs of any breathing disorder and ate without any problems prior to his departure from Sylvercrest. At this point, Sylvercrest can only assume that over exertion/excitement in playing with another dog may have led to the instant collapse of the airway. Unfortunate situation, but not one in which the breeder could have forseen or be held responsible for. Sylvercrest was not present at the time to have been able to see just "how" over exerted/excited the puppy may have been and also how long or under what conditions the "play" took place and considering that the puppy was only 9 weeks old, many factors could and may have affected the outcome of this situation....


We contacted the breeder asking for a full refund but she refused; instead offering 50% off on another Frenchie or free replacement of another breed of puppy. After a few emails back end forth, she has refused to budge from this offer.

The owner made no request for a refund after the death. Sylvercrest initially voluntarily offered "50% off another Frenchie or a free replacement with another breed of puppy (which Sylvercrest felt might be more suitable for these new owners) immediately upon learning the news of their puppy's death, without ANY request for compensation from the new owners. These offers were made as a goodwill gesture from Sylvercrest. The puppy had a 1 week health warranty against canine diseases and at the time of his death, his health warranty period had expired. Not to mention that if the puppy did indeed die due to over excitement/excertion in play which led to the instant unforeseeable collapse of the airway (which the new owners plainly has claimed took place) while under their care, then how could Sylvercrest be held responsible? Yet Sylvercrest still volunteered without question of cause or fault to go 50% split on giving them a new Frenchie pup or to give them free of charge a puppy of another breed. It was only after a few correspondences that the new owners eventually asked for a 50% cash refund. Sylvercrest nicely explained that there was no obligation or contract for such a cash refund; however, once again, as a goodwill gesture, Sylvercrest offered to reimburse the new owners RM1000 if they chose not to take another puppy. It was at this time that the new owners sent Sylvercrest a threatening email, demanding a 50% cash refund by a certain date or they would start writing into newspapers and pet forums.

A French Bulldog is rare breed that does require special care, especially under Malaysian climate conditions. In addition, the breed comes with many inherit risks that owners must understand. Most Frenchies have elongated soft palettes of varying degrees and they live long healthy normal lives, with knowledge and preventative care from their owners. These are all facts that can be openly researched on-line in regards to this breed.
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Old 03-03-2013, 07:04 PM
Sylvercrest Sylvercrest is offline
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Default Re: Our Sad Experience with Sylvercrest Kennels, Penang

We consulted with a few parties and realized a few things that were not quite right:
The following comments below reflect most breeders in Malaysia and not Sylvercrest alone.
We were not given a contract to sign stating terms and conditions of sale
Sylvercrest never denied the new owners a signed contract, they simply never asked for one.
We were not advised to take him for a vet check up
It is not the fault of the breeder to not have advised the new owners to take the puppy for a vet check, one would assume that any new owner would care enough to do so on their own accord, if not for the puppy's sake, then at least to protect their investment.
After we forwarded our our complaint, she dug up some other contracts from the internet and stated that her contract only covers 1 week after purchase
Sylvercrest has the email correspondences to show that the new owner was given in writing via email a 7 day health warranty against transmissible canine diseases to which they found acceptable, did not question and continued on with their purchase.
She kept quoting that no other local breeders would give a guarantee for more than 1 week but one of the contracts that SHE FORWARDED TO ME stated coverage of 6 MONTHS on life threatening genetic defects
The contracts forwarded to the new owners was copies of contracts from INTERNATIONAL French Bulldog breeders around the world just to show that even if a genetic health guarantee was given, elongated soft pallate issues are NOT covered for this breed so that whether a genetic guarantee was given or not, if their puppy had died from an elongated palatte, as they so claim, then it would not have been covered anyhow and the issue null and void. This email Sylvercrest also has a copy of.
Breeder did not furnish us with an actual MKA Cert number.
The new owners were given vaccination papers with the MKA Microchip number on the front and shown by a microchip reader at time of delivery that the microchip implanted matched that of the microchip number on the vaccination card. No breeder would be able to furnish an actual MKA cert number since the final original MKA certs do not arrive from MKA until about 60 days after microchipping is done and signed paperwork returned to MKA. Anyone owning or breeding MKA registered dogs knows this for a fact.
We were not allowed to see Ody's parents or his living conditions. For our own safety and protection, Sylvercrest does not allow home visits. There are many horror stories from other breeders we know of who have had their homes broken into, dogs stolen, property stolen etc. One breeder friend even had his entire family tied up at knife point, dogs taken, when they let in a family (who had a child with them) into their home to see their puppies. Obviously this breeder now does not allow home visits either and it was he who has urged Sylvercrest to do the same. Before this, Sylvercrest used to allow home visits. Sylvercrest tells all potential new owners that they can drive up to Penang to view pups and parents at anytime after the pups have had their 1st vaccinations (never before that), and that Sylvercrest will bring the dogs out and meet them in a public place. Many have chosen to do so and others have chosen to just have their new pup delivered to them at their location. Opening your home up to visits also invites potential transfer of diseases which is not a good. Sylvercrest dogs are all vaccinated up to date, not allowed to come into contact with outside dogs and we can safely say that there is absolutely no Parvo or Distemper ever in the pups born in our home.
She delayed delivery to us a few times, forcing us to go up to Penang from KL to pick up Ody
Not true. Sylvercrest has email correspondences that will show that we did not want their pup to leave too early and was only willing to let him leave after he was eating well on his own and properly weaned away from his mother. The new owners were in such a rush to get him because of their own work schedule (apparently she was starting a new job and wanted him before that time), but Sylvercrest would not allow the pup to leave until he was absolutely ready to go. In addition, since Sylvercrest is based in Penang, new owners are advised that Sylvercrest makes trips to KL only once every few weeks and provides "free" delivery so long as it coincides with those times. IF they wished to pick up their puppy, they could come up to Penang. If not, then wait until the next KL trip for the free delivery option... They CHOSE to come to Penang to pick up... They were NOT "forced".
She constantly sold herself as far superior to "local Malaysian backyard breeders" in quality and service
Their Frenchie pup did not come from local breed bloodlines. Father is Imported and a Malaysia Champion. Mother's dam also Imported and from show lines. Sylvercrest does not breed local, mixed, or unregistered puppies and breeds for superior quality and conformation. As for service, Sylvercrest has gone above and beyond in trying to find reasonable resolution, which was not accepted and thrown back with threats. Sylvercrest has had many many satisfied puppy buyers and many have even chosen to return for a second puppy, even though there are "cheaper" ones out there available. So far, not a single complaint. This is a stand alone case and not warranted. Sylvercrest does not over breed. Our female Frenchies are generally only bred once a year and there is a waiting list for pups. Our adults are all vet cleared before being re-bred. For example, our 1 female Rott (we only have 1 female) which is Import CH. Sired, was only bred this year for the first time at the age of 2 years to an Imported, BIS CH Rott Male to produce solid, show quality puppies. Sylvercrest also does not broker other breeders puppies and all Sylvercrest puppies are lovingly homebred right here at Sylvercrest. Many past buyers continue to maintain contact with Sylvercrest with photo updates and Sylvercrest is always available to answer any questions that they may have, even if it does not concern a Sylvercrest pup.

I'm now looking into what further action can be taken legally but just to inform every one out there, this breeder markets themselves as premium but from our experience they conduct themselves very unprofessionally.

Anyone is free to contact Sylvercrest privately if you wish to view the email conversations that took place here. We are sure you will see that Sylvercrest acted professionally at all times. In fact, Sylvercrest went beyond what most breeders and pet stores would do. Sometimes you just can't make everyone happy.

Recently we purchased Penelope from Mr Ho, a self proclaimed "back yard breeder" who was SO much nicer:
We were immediately allowed to visit his house to view his whole Frenchie family, who are happy and well adjusted, living comfortably together
Once again, as stated above, we have good reasons to not allow home visits. All dogs at Sylvercrest are all kept indoors as house-pets, play together and are house-trained, with the exception of our 1 Rottweiler and 1 Golden that lives outdoors in our front yard, but they are not caged or tied up and allowed to run free in our yard enclosure. Our "retired" breeders are placed to good homes at a low cost to cover their spay/neuter. Until they can find new permanent pet homes, our "retired" breeders continue to live happily in our home. Sylvercrest does not allow any "retired" breeders to leave un-spayed or un-neutered. If anyone wishes to adopt a "retired" breeder, please do contact Sylvercrest as we may have some nice young adults available on occasion.
Penelope is the same age as Ody but more than 2 times larger! She is healthy and robust
Their puppy was robust and solid for his age in relation to how big he should be for a PROPER sized French Bulldog. French Bulldogs weighing over 12kgs as adults are deemed over-sized and not accepted for show. People who know French Bulldogs will know this. In this case, size is not everything. A Frenchie should be robust, compact, short bodied, solid in bone structure and under 12kgs when grown.
His price was 30% cheaper
Price is set by the breeder and a buyer is not forced to pay the price he does not deem fair to pay. Local versus Imported Champion stock will obviously have a price difference considering it cost over RM9000+ to import in a one French Bulldog.

This is all Sylvercrest has to say on the matter. We hope all who read this will see that it is easy to just blame the breeder, but not always warranted. Not all breeders are bad and please don't jump to conclusions until you have heard both sides to the story. Sylvercrest strives to go the extra mile to be above and beyond, but we will not tolerate unwarranted threats, especially if it is not Sylvercrest's wrong doing to begin with. Sylvercrest thanks all of our many past buyers and will continue to stand by the quality of our dogs.
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Old 03-13-2013, 07:45 AM
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Maneki Neko Maneki Neko is offline
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Default Re: Our Sad Experience with Sylvercrest Kennels, Penang

The owners of Sylvercrest Kennels have responded to wkquek's allegations in great detail and with email chains to support their side of this story. I think both sides of this account are very informative for both buyers and sellers. The thread is now closed.
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