DBKL Animal Cruelty

[lynielime]

tanuki,
what's happened?

[khengteik]

Jeff
Ok... Just to get things straight.... I would not be bold enough to say i know ALL the independent rescuers but i do know quite a few of them... especially those in pp.com... From my circle of rescuers that i know, not all of them will neuter the animal (dogs and cats alike) when it is with them. Usually the first thing that is done is to the animals is to vaccinate them and also make sure that they are not ill. This is because most rescuers have their own pets. And to prevent any medical complications is the first priority. And then when they have the time, they will bring the animals out to be neutered.

However, whatever the circumstances may be, all animals that leave the hands of the fosterers/rescuers that i know will be neutered before reaching the hands of the person who wants to adopt. And since most of these rescuers/fosterers are free lance ppl, therefore it is only fair to charge the person who is going to adopt a nominal fee, which is the cost of the vaccination and also the neutering. usually that is what is ask from the rescuers. There might be times where the animal is neutered just a few days before handing over to new owner, or in some special cases, the new owner themselves will bring the animal to be neutered. but whichever the case, we try to make sure that the animal is neutered.

If a person is screaming about adopting but yet need to pay, please do understand that most rescuers i know are only charging for the vaccination and also the neutering cost only. Most wont charge for anything more then that. So, even if the animal is with the rescuer for 1 month or 2 months or even more then that, they are not charging for any lodging/food/etc... And, if the new owner cant even fork out a nominal adoption fee, how is the new owner going to pay for food, supplements (if any), medications, vet bills (in case of emergency) etc... I've seen quite a number of posts saying adoption is supposed to be free, but i beg to differ... If the person is really an animal lover, a nominal fee would not be an issue to him or her...

Another thing is i noticed in pp.com that there are alot of people who are looking for pure breed puppies... which in turn will encourage backyard breedings... that is why i've always and still am against breeding... although it is not really usually stated in forums, i know of a great number of pure breeds that are with my friends... and we do not simply give them up to anyone. Especially to those who posts in the forum with one line introduction. from my point of view, these people are just interested in the breed and usually they do not know anything about the breed except it is "beautiful" or "handsome" and whenever i try to ask about their dog handling experiences, all of them become defensive and start saying nasty things to me... And these are the people who are contributing to the number of strays on the road.. when they cant handle/not cute anymore/not beautiful anymore/making alot of noise/ etc.... they will just dump the dogs out... and most of these people will NOT neuter their dogs... and will give all sorts of excuses not to neuter their dog eventhough it is already scientifically proven that dogs that are neutered when are young live a longer and healthier life...

And since we are discussing about cruelty, wouldn't we be more cruel to our pets when we know that they are prone to cancer, etc but yet we did not do anything until it has happened... our pets can never tell us that they are in pain or sick.. and most of the time they only howl... and when they howl, their owners whack them or scold them without really finding out why is their dog doing that..


Just something to share
I saw on animal planet once about Pure breeds... apparently there are now no such thing as pure breed as they are already extinct hundred of years ago... dogs nowadays are actually mix breeds... Breeders mix and match a few breeds together to get the perfect dog for their work and most breeds are "made" so that they can carry out a specific job... and not only that, some of the pure breed dogs are so deformed that they do not resemble the first generation of the breed anymore. some breeds are actually misinterpreted breeds, where their defects have become their best traits. Such as the Rhodesian Ridgeback where the ridge on the back of the dog is actually a deformation on the dog that will lead to spinal problems which i cannot recall why.... Another case for example, apparently there is a pair (male and female) dog that was from Malaysia and they were brought to Europe. Apparently, this dog is a pure breed dog (well.. that is according to the owner then). Anyway, now, there is a club for people with this breed of dog in Europe... so let us think... only 1 pair was brought there... but now there are more then 1 pair... which means whatever dogs of that breed that is there now are all inbread dogs... and we all know that inbreeding will actually cause more and more genetic problems...

So now who is cruel? i guess it is a trait in humans who thinks that animals are lower beings that can be used as a form of entertainment....

[lynielime]

well said khengteik!!

as a rescuer and fosterer myself, i totally absolutely wholeheartedly agree with EVERYTHING you said!!

[Jeffrey Read]

khengteik,
I guess you and aliciahorsley are correct. Consider myself unlucky to bum into animal rescuer who does not neuter or spay their pets the moment its rescued. When "accidents" do happen, of course there will be more bundle of joy to go around.

I have a knack of discovering people with ill intentions and many a times I have come across them here and in other sites. They may change their profile from time to time but something just gives them away. ;-) If I am not mistaken, someone posted here regarding a pet that was adopted from an animal shelter and was told that it was spayed. Well, the adopted animal got pregnant later! So much for believing in people huh!

About mix breed interpretation, that I will have to disagree with you wholeheartedly. There are organizations worldwide which breeds birds more specifically Zebra Finches. These organizations have professionals in their various fields as they devote and learn to breed specific mutation found just from 1 bird alone. From breeding from that particular 1 bird, with various techniques like line breeding and out-crossing are deployed and there are no problems whatsoever even after generations.

I am sorry to say this but the lack of indepth understanding about genetics and the ill written site, usually promotes much misunderstanding. I have read that article somewhere too online but learning about birds from the experts, my views about things have completely changed.

The common basic misunderstanding is that if 2 dogs are constantly bred will create genetically identical offsprings. That is incorrect otherwise, please explain why are brothers and sisters do not look alike except for Siamese twins?

Likewise with German Shepherds wherein the founder of the breed developed this breed from a couple of dogs. Many people claim the identical thing you've said but its not true. The statement is only true if the world did not have other dogs around and the couple of dogs appeared from nowhere! Since dogs multiply by breeding dogs, there are various DNA established in an organism that comes from not only its parents but handed down from its grandparents or lineage.

So what is expressed according to genetics doesn't mean that is the only genes it has. As there are recessive genes as well, that remains hidden until the appropriate time to express [show] itself.

I did subscribe to the same idea like you but as I learn more from foreign experts, I feel I am totally behind time. Let me tell you how advanced the foreigners are with Zebra Finches and with all the various mutations. They have computer programs which literally computes the % of possibility of each offspring depending on the mutations entered. That is how advanced they are and until Malaysians learn more about genetics, what ever we breed will not be able to match whatever they breed! Agree?

Not only birds, there are chickens, cows, goats even greens and organizations are still pursuing to develop better strains. The idea of coming from 2 stock is more of a fallacy, wherein people have already succeeded with 1 stock alone.

The era of internet is providing a lot of information but it is up to us to decipher what is correct and incorrect. Let me give you an example that I have experienced before.

Every Malaysian I know will advise against planting carpet grass due to the never ending problems like weeds etc but when I learned about carpet grass in detail from proper books, its very simple provided proper steps are followed. Did you know that there are people overseas who studies about carpet grass in great detail let alone publish books? Sometimes, advices provided are unreliable if its coming from an non-reputable professional source.

[Jeffrey Read]

khengteik,
Sorry, I miss this one about pure breed & mix breed. The main difference between the 2 breed is time. The time undertaken to establish a pure breed is tedious, long and expensive.

Like German Shepherds are bred for their courage, loyalty, intelligence for work or a Maltese for companion's sake. Wherein a mix breed is bred at the heat of the moment with no aim whatsoever from the breeder. WYSIWYG.

The problems you mentioned is related to genetics and I forgot to inform that there are various kinds of genes earlier like normal, recessive, dominant, co-dominant, mutant genes and who knows what kind of genes there is out there waiting to be discovered! ;-)

By the way, not all dogs are qualified to be bred, likewise with all living organisms unfortunately this applies to human beings as well.

I do agree with you about people's dog handling experience. Many do not even know how to walk a dog properly, let alone be in total control over their dog. Which I believe is a more of a danger to themselves and to the public especially in dealing with medium to large breeds.

[khengteik]

Jeff
I would not disagree with you about genetic issues... as I myself know very little about it... what i've mentioned here are from Animal Planet... as much as i like to see Pimp My Ride or Extreme Machines etc... I also watch Animal Planet quite alot... and that is where i get most of my information... and things that i am not sure, i will check about it online... It is true that sometimes, breeders will mate the parent with their pups... but that is selective breedings where alot of genetic tests are done before really doing it... from the informations that i got from Animal Planet and also some from the internet, it has already been proven by vets all over the world that breeding siblings+siblings or parent+siblings etc is very bad and in almost all cases, there would be complications or even amplification of a certain disorder.

If i'm not mistaken, i've read somewhere that inbreeding of hamsters will produce hamsters that are not only more aggressive (where they will bite) and also their teeth to protrude outwards. this i am sure of because that was what happened to a bunch of hamsters that my friend used to have... after reading about it and seperating the parents from the siblings, the next batch of babies are very normal and also are not as aggressive..

have a look at this website:
http://www.5stardog.com/dog-breeds.htm
there are quite a number of breeds of dogs in the list are cross breeds... where like i mention earlier, they are tailor made for specific jobs...

Anyway, there are alot of grey area's regarding this issue.... and again, i would like to mention that i'm not saying all breeders are bad... as i've read quite a few extensively produced articles from a few breeders and vets. And sad to say, there are only a handful of them in the world...

[khengteik]

Btw, I wont discourage anyone from planting carpet grass... or any other type of grass for that matter.... cos from my personal experience, it has nothing to do with the grass... its all because of the soil.... if there is even a single strand of root of a "lalang" or a few seedlings of unwanted weed, they will be a pain in the ass

[tanuki]

lynielime:
Just want to let you know, I retract my comments.


khengteik:

[This is a subject based on dogs, not any other species]
I understand your concern about Purebreds. I read a short story on an English Newspaper The Guardian where Purebreds doesn't really exists as it has now "inbreds". This is because many Purebreds owners/breeders who breeds these dogs, does so with the pets' sisters, mothers or cousins. Of course, that results to a lot of health and physical appearance problems. And these pets will be sold as pedigree or Purebred as it fetches a higher price.
This remains me of Puppy Mills.


About dog rescuers, you and I can't speak for every single dog rescuers out there but we can only speak about the ones we know and believe who acts accordingly and responsibly. Well "accordingly and responsibly" are two words I believe is opinion-based as I might say someone does this and you might not so, etc. Point is if someone wants to donate or adopt, this person should ask around about this rescuer or hear more about what's going before deciding anything. No harm being a bit cautious.


From melmel's post on the latest updates from SPCA, it sounds like they are doing a lot. I am surprised as I didn't expect them to publish anything to be honest. And they threatened to pull out from DBKL? I think it looks like SPCA will lose more than DBKL. I do not know if the cost of getting pets neutered goes to DBKL or SPCA but DBKL doesn't look like they care about pets in general. So the loser will be SPCA as the idea of having an office there is to encourage owners to neutered theirs pets for a low fee. No SPCA office in DBKL = No neuter. Then what happens to the pets? Where will they set up the new office? Need to pay rental? Sounds worst off or more like a weird/empty threat. They can shift back to their HQ.
I found it surprising because Christine Chin said,"We have no power!" [throwing her hands in the air - someone let me know if i am wrong]. Funny part is, independent rescuers protested or started this whole thing. SPCA doesn't want to lose out and set up a date with people and telling people of their achievements. I am not sure what am I suppose to make of their letter... sounds like they are sitting on the fence. Then again, that is my take on the deal.

[Jeffrey Read]

khengteik,
May I suggest you learn about dog genetics. It will change your perspective completely.

There are many reasons why people will never tell the entire truth even about dogs be it on Animal Planet or publications. The dog world is extremely lucrative and to spill out even a bean to a competitor is most unwise especially those who live in the dog competitive world of exhibition. You can say like "family secret".

I think we can good friends for a long time to come especially about carpet grass. LOL

tanuki,
When the term pure breed is use, its means that breed has been bred true to its lineage. It has no relevance whatsoever to the term pure as per say. Its easy to misinterpret the word pure itself. Just like in English, under the old text "I am gay" refers to a different completely meaning than to what is known today.

There is no relevance between pure breed and in-breeding which are separate and distinct. There are techniques deployed for pure breeds to keep the strain's vigor but for in-breeding, usually done by backyard breeders equivalent home breeders or puppy mills or anyone without any knowledge on genetics whatsoever that are creating the problems for everyone!

It doesn't matter if the subject matter is on dog or on birds or any other animals. Its basically our understanding of genetics and genetics works about the same way for almost all living organisms.

You do have your right of opinion on the deal and irregardless of what SPCA had done, I am still hoping melmel will be able to secure SPCA accounts and publish for all to see. Until then I will reserve my comments as of now without any accounts, SPCA does not qualify for my comments.

[khengteik]

Just for the sake of argument..... with snippets from thestar.com.my

“The dog was already dead after our officers had euthanised it. What was shown on TV was a worker dragging a dead dog. It was not strangled or its neck fractured as reported,’’ he said.

Is it really necessary to drag a dead dog using the loop thinggie? The dog is dead, therefore it will not bite anyone anymore...

On the issue of the burial method, the mayor said the landfill in Bukit Taga refused to take the carcasses so DBKL had to bury the dead dogs inside the pound. But this was done under the Dog Licensing and Canal bylaws

The process involves digging several holes which are about 6ft deep. The hole is layered with lime dust as a disinfectant. Each hole can take in about 60 dogs and the process is repeated months later.

“As bad as it may sound, there is no other way to do this as the cost of having an incinerator is too expensive,” Fuad said.

The holes are not only not properly filled, and from the footage in the TV, I dont think that it is even layered with lime dust. look at the flies and creepy crawlies all over...

Under the Dog Licensing and Canal bylaws 1991, stray dogs caught by the DBKL will be kept for seven days before they are put to sleep.

“The cost of catching a dog is RM30 and feeding and euthanising a dog costs RM120.

“The DBKL catches some 8,000 stray dogs a year. Last year alone, over 7,800 dogs were put down at the Setapak dog pound,” Fuad said.

The mayor said if they were to engage a veterinarian to administer the injections, it would cost more. Fuad, however, promised to look into all aspects of the situation and better manage it.

Lets do some calculations...
Assuming that DBKL catches 8,000 strays a year... And the cost for catching ONE dog is RM30... This means that the cost for catching 8,000 dogs is RM240,000 a year.
Lets assume again that 7,800 dogs are fed and then put to sleep in a year... Assuming that the cost to feed a dog in a week is RM30... which means the cost to euthanize a dog would roughly be about RM90.. Therefore, the cost of euthanizing 7,800 dogs is RM 702,000 a year.

So... IF the dogs are not euthanized properly, and not using the medication, a total of RM462,000 can be saved a year...

While the mayor acknowledged that whole process should have been better managed, he, however, denied that the dogs were brutally killed at the DBKL dog pound.

“We have been operating the pound for over seven years in collaboration with the SPCA and there has never been such an incident,’’ he said.

From the information that i got (which i'm not sure how true it is), DBKL pound has erected a new fence to enclose the premises so that no one can see what is happening inside. So, if there is really no such things happening there, why take the trouble to cover up the pound?

And if i'm not mistaken, since DBKL is under the government, and this means they survive from the money they are getting from the government... Which in turn is the "rakyat's" money... as we are paying taxes.. And since we are the one's paying the funding and also the salary of these people, we have all the right to query whatever is deem to be improper...

The DBKL, in collaboration with the SPCA, had initiated the Klinik Kembiri programme a few years ago whereby cats and dogs are spayed to prevent unwanted stray population. Since 2003, over 8,000 cats and dogs have been spayed.

8000 cats and dogs for a period of 7 years?? which means that only about 1000 odd cats and dogs a year... and again if i'm not mistaken, these animals are brought in by the owners themselves and the neutering fees are paid.... which has nothing to do with the issue in hand now...

The investigations are all done internally and the people doing the investigations are also the DBKL people.. i'm sure everything is swept under the carpet... who wont cover their own ass?? Dont tell me the investigator who is under the employment of DBKL would say "Yes, what you saw on TV is true, we are merciless killers..."

[Jeffrey Read]

khengteik,
Thank goodness for getting me back on track. The topic has veered too much.

If an allegation is made, there must at least some for of evidence. Hard evidence. Otherwise, why even bother to prosecute when its basic knowledge the defendant will be freed at the end of the day! Hearsay does not count, what published in papers does not count.

In your opinion and everyone's opinion, did the 360 show anything about animal cruelty? The answer to that question will let you know if there is a case or otherwise.

Well about the loop thinggy, the most probable lamest excuse I can come up now is. Its dead and it might be contagious for who knows what disease it might harbour. Better to take extra precaution. Didn't you notice the workers in FULL GEAR, what does it imply?

Spot on with your calculations. I really like your next para especially on the word in collaboration with SPCA. Hmmm collaboration a lot of funny stuff is coming to my mind now but for the benefit of all, I will leave it to everyone's creative imagination. LOL

Tell you what, lets wait until 21 Feb 09 and see if those protestors had learned anything aside from the postings here.

[khengteik]

Jeff
I've never been interested in genetics and such... Its just because of dogs that i read a bit about them...

regarding the carpet grass.... i'm more interested in landscaping... hahahaha.... the carpet grass problem is something i found out quite accidentally when was planting cow grass at my house...

Evidence is what we do not have now... and will never have in the future if SPCA does not buck up... However, my point again is, if it is true, why DBKL now erected and covered the pound? IF they have done nothing wrong, why all the trouble?? wasting time, wasting energy and most importantly wasting tax-payers money...

As for the footage from 360, as you have pointed out, and also i have tried to review quite a few times, it is really hard to determine if the dog is dead or alive... but again back to my point, if they have done nothing wrong, what's it with covering the pound?

If the dog is really dead, and the act of using the loop is just for the sake of convenience, i can come up with more then 1 way which is more convenient then using the loop... like using a wheelbarrow?? then can straight push the dead dog to its burial hole....

calculations calculations calculations... i hate them... but i dont know why i have the knack of using it to piss ppl off...

[Jeffrey Read]

khengteik,
What I know is that, if I am keen and willing to learn, the more I will know. Genetics is complex but once you keep on struggling with it, its easier to grasp. That means throwing out everything I had learned from unreliable source. ;-)

Finally, you got the message I wanted to get across from the very beginning.

You have to keep things into perspective. If you raise about fencing, again my lamest excuse now is for safety. Didn't the men in full gear imply anything? Like wise at construction sites, whats with the fencing? Safety. I know it lame. Besides, its DBKL's property and they can erect whatever fencing they like as long its within the boundary. Neither anyone of us has any rights to the fencing unless we buy the property DBKL pound is operating on.

There is nothing wrong with calculations, that is why I want to see SPCA accounts! Don't we all? At least if we expect SPCA to buck up all the more its accounts will be required. Agree?

After all, the 2 ladies in 360 were asking where had the money gone but strangely nobody is asking for its accounts except me? Let me sit down and think about it. That will take a long while trust me. I hope my insistence for the accounts isn't pissing anyone off. lol

[lynielime]

Originally Posted by tanuki

From melmel's post on the latest updates from SPCA, it sounds like they are doing a lot. I am surprised as I didn't expect them to publish anything to be honest. And they threatened to pull out from DBKL? I think it looks like SPCA will lose more than DBKL. I do not know if the cost of getting pets neutered goes to DBKL or SPCA but DBKL doesn't look like they care about pets in general. So the loser will be SPCA as the idea of having an office there is to encourage owners to neutered theirs pets for a low fee. No SPCA office in DBKL = No neuter. Then what happens to the pets? Where will they set up the new office? Need to pay rental? Sounds worst off or more like a weird/empty threat. They can shift back to their HQ.
I found it surprising because Christine Chin said,"We have no power!" [throwing her hands in the air - someone let me know if i am wrong]. Funny part is, independent rescuers protested or started this whole thing. SPCA doesn't want to lose out and set up a date with people and telling people of their achievements. I am not sure what am I suppose to make of their letter... sounds like they are sitting on the fence. Then again, that is my take on the deal.

Hi tanuki. If you want to know what spca is up to, just join their mailing list. They send out an e-newsletter every week. That's what melmel posted here. Its the weekly update and i received it too. They keep their members and other interested parties very well informed about their endeavors.

[t.ruth]

Originally Posted by khengteik

Jeff
Ok... Just to get things straight.... I would not be bold enough to say i know ALL the independent rescuers but i do know quite a few of them... especially those in pp.com... From my circle of rescuers that i know, not all of them will neuter the animal (dogs and cats alike) when it is with them. Usually the first thing that is done is to the animals is to vaccinate them and also make sure that they are not ill. This is because most rescuers have their own pets. And to prevent any medical complications is the first priority. And then when they have the time, they will bring the animals out to be neutered.

However, whatever the circumstances may be, all animals that leave the hands of the fosterers/rescuers that i know will be neutered before reaching the hands of the person who wants to adopt. And since most of these rescuers/fosterers are free lance ppl, therefore it is only fair to charge the person who is going to adopt a nominal fee, which is the cost of the vaccination and also the neutering. usually that is what is ask from the rescuers. There might be times where the animal is neutered just a few days before handing over to new owner, or in some special cases, the new owner themselves will bring the animal to be neutered. but whichever the case, we try to make sure that the animal is neutered.

If a person is screaming about adopting but yet need to pay, please do understand that most rescuers i know are only charging for the vaccination and also the neutering cost only. Most wont charge for anything more then that. So, even if the animal is with the rescuer for 1 month or 2 months or even more then that, they are not charging for any lodging/food/etc... And, if the new owner cant even fork out a nominal adoption fee, how is the new owner going to pay for food, supplements (if any), medications, vet bills (in case of emergency) etc... I've seen quite a number of posts saying adoption is supposed to be free, but i beg to differ... If the person is really an animal lover, a nominal fee would not be an issue to him or her...

Another thing is i noticed in pp.com that there are alot of people who are looking for pure breed puppies... which in turn will encourage backyard breedings... that is why i've always and still am against breeding... although it is not really usually stated in forums, i know of a great number of pure breeds that are with my friends... and we do not simply give them up to anyone. Especially to those who posts in the forum with one line introduction. from my point of view, these people are just interested in the breed and usually they do not know anything about the breed except it is "beautiful" or "handsome" and whenever i try to ask about their dog handling experiences, all of them become defensive and start saying nasty things to me... And these are the people who are contributing to the number of strays on the road.. when they cant handle/not cute anymore/not beautiful anymore/making alot of noise/ etc.... they will just dump the dogs out... and most of these people will NOT neuter their dogs... and will give all sorts of excuses not to neuter their dog eventhough it is already scientifically proven that dogs that are neutered when are young live a longer and healthier life...

And since we are discussing about cruelty, wouldn't we be more cruel to our pets when we know that they are prone to cancer, etc but yet we did not do anything until it has happened... our pets can never tell us that they are in pain or sick.. and most of the time they only howl... and when they howl, their owners whack them or scold them without really finding out why is their dog doing that..


Just something to share
I saw on animal planet once about Pure breeds... apparently there are now no such thing as pure breed as they are already extinct hundred of years ago... dogs nowadays are actually mix breeds... Breeders mix and match a few breeds together to get the perfect dog for their work and most breeds are "made" so that they can carry out a specific job... and not only that, some of the pure breed dogs are so deformed that they do not resemble the first generation of the breed anymore. some breeds are actually misinterpreted breeds, where their defects have become their best traits. Such as the Rhodesian Ridgeback where the ridge on the back of the dog is actually a deformation on the dog that will lead to spinal problems which i cannot recall why.... Another case for example, apparently there is a pair (male and female) dog that was from Malaysia and they were brought to Europe. Apparently, this dog is a pure breed dog (well.. that is according to the owner then). Anyway, now, there is a club for people with this breed of dog in Europe... so let us think... only 1 pair was brought there... but now there are more then 1 pair... which means whatever dogs of that breed that is there now are all inbread dogs... and we all know that inbreeding will actually cause more and more genetic problems...

So now who is cruel? i guess it is a trait in humans who thinks that animals are lower beings that can be used as a form of entertainment....

Hi khengteik

at last we have someone whose head is screwed on right. you have indeed hit the nail on the head. great to know there are sensible forummers like you, especially what you share on breeding. wonderful indeed! carry on giving your pearls of wisdom.

[Jeffrey Read]

khengteik,
Referring to what was quoted by t.ruth above from your post.

The demand for pure breed is more of a fad and generally these people who demand for these kind of pure breed knows almost nothing about the breed in question. History has shown good examples like Dalmatians which still available for adoptions at animal shelters.

What is sorely lacking is education among buyers. When you compare the dog business here and against the United States there are vast differences. Albeit there are backyard breeders and puppy mills too in the US, what I admire is the educated buyers will always buy from breeders who breed for the betterment of the dog.

That leads me to my next question since I touched on pure & mix breed. While foreigners continously breed pure breed to further enhance its traits or to achieve specific purposes, why are posts found here to be breeding dogs from different pure breeds or pure breed with mix breed? Is there any logic to that?

I can only think of 3 possible explanation:
1. The pets are not neutered or spayed as a result accidents do happen;
2. The owner does not have any try clue of what the owner wants to achieve; and
3. Lets try and mix and see what they produce! ?&%@#&$^

[khengteik]

Well.. to be honest, i have not been bothered to read about genetics in detail... its not my cup of tea... i spend more time reading and researching on more technical things... me knowing some aspects of dog genetics is because of Astro...

what u say is true, DBKL can do anything they want within the compound... but lets not forget that their funds to run the pound is from the general public... and so is the salary paid to the pound workers.... therefore, in my humble opinion, the general public is technically their bosses..

since we r talking abt accounts and calculations, i think not only the accounts of SPCA should be brought up.... but also the accounts of DBKL... or at least their itinerary... what r all the public's fund spent for? where do they get the money to pay for dog catchers?? and who supplies them the medication to euthanize the dogs? are they given by the government? or do they have to pay? and the list goes on and on and on....
SPCA should be more transparent and not keep their accounts under the table... the people who have donated to SPCA let it be individuals or corporate companies etc should have the right to see where all the money has gone....

And let me say this again... SPCA is a society that is supposed to prevent cruelty towards animals... but all they ever talk about is donation drive, jumble sale... adoption... etc... i have never heard of SPCA giving out talks etc about neutering pets, awareness, how a pet is treated

[lynielime]

actually khengteik, spca does give out talks about the importance of neutering and spaying, proper pet care and so on..

i have volunteered with them for 3 years and participated in these activities. why don't you offer your help as well so you can see for yourself?

[FurKids]

DBKL gets tons of $$ from billboard ads too.

Yes, the logic (illogic?) was reported in the papers recently that the ratepayers are DBKL paymasters but the top guns are appointed by politicians, do their bidding and report to the PM. As such, the complain was that DBKL ended up serving not the ratepayers but the politicians.

Lynie
It would help to persuade general opinion by being more specific on details. You see, these days, people are not so interested in how many and varied the activities/actions but how effective they are. Output needs to contribute to outcomes and benefit realisation. The people are not seeing the benefits desired despite the many activities you are telling about. So it is like busy being busy with activities, that's all. The top management of SPCA needs plan strategically and come out with the benefit realisation plan.

[khengteik]

t.ruth
actually, demands for pure breeds is not an old issue... it has been since many many years back... but back then, only the rich can afford to buy them... but now since there is soo many back yard breeders around, it has become cheaper and cheaper. If i remember correctly.. when i was still studying, the cost for a pure breed GSD is around RM15k - RM20k... now u can get them for around RM3k - RM5k... and i think there are some selling less then that...

Jeff
Since we are not in the midst of discussing pure and mix breeds and also SPCA, Here are some things i would like to add...

I would agree 100% with you that most if not all buyers that buys dogs from pet shops have no knowledge whatsoever about Dogs in general... and the reason they want pure breeds its a status of wealth or just because can show off... and when these dogs got problems, usually its just abandoned somewhere... since the cost to cure it would maybe be more then buying a new pup... most people would just do that..

That is why i keep on asking why SPCA does not do awareness campaign or anything to educate future and also current pet owners...

That leads me to my next question since I touched on pure & mix breed. While foreigners continously breed pure breed to further enhance its traits or to achieve specific purposes, why are posts found here to be breeding dogs from different pure breeds or pure breed with mix breed? Is there any logic to that?

I can only think of 3 possible explanation:
1. The pets are not neutered or spayed as a result accidents do happen;
2. The owner does not have any try clue of what the owner wants to achieve; and
3. Lets try and mix and see what they produce! ?&%@#&$^

I would say that in most cases, when u get poodle+shih tzu mix or whatever mix, it is all because of accident cases. but some of these breeders would be so bold as to say it is their doing to get a better dog... there is no concrete reason to breed or mix breeds... and in most cases, these breeders breed just for the money.. not for the sake of the betterment of the breed/dog...

And owners who are not educated of the consequences of not neutering their dogs are also a big group of people who are contributing for not only the growing number of mix breeds around... but also the number of strays...